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Jane Cosson (Souzon)

Agree Nori, that's the most outrageous part of the whole thing, as far as the lechers in Congress (as opposed to all the others) are concerned, that we pay for it.  Whose bright idea was that?  Theirs, of course.

THanks to all for the comments on Pachelbel, which led to the question of crying, do i do it more now, etc.  Steve said  'yes because i don't care who sees me anymore, and i want to feel more'....and he goes on to say most things that bring on tears now are good things.  Which brings me to my other big existential (never been quite sure what the term means) issue: why do we cry, i mean literally, physically, why does water come out of our eyes a)when we hurt/mad and also b) when we're happy and also c) many diverse forms of emotional experience, e.g. singing national anthem, witnessing the great immensity of the dark sky.  Any biologists or anthropologists among us? 

Clearly not me, just grasping at straws here, feel free to chuckle:  I always try to think about behavior as far back as possible, ie when we were just cells, combining and dividing.  If all cells have some degree of water (do they???--key point), then maybe each time they combine or divide, some water is squished out/escapes.  So we cry when we experience either hurt ie  some other cell/creature has in some general or specific  sense pulled away or been taken away from us--divided--as when loved one leaves or dies;  OR the other side, we cry when we experience happiness , due to feeling unity/combining with another individual (loved one) , or many (group we belong to--eg singing national anthem) , or all individuals ( when see Man land on the moon), or even all cells, as when gazing at all the stars on a dark night. 

OR:  Is it something to do with our eyes actually needing moisture at all those diverse times , because...?????

Comments welcome!

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Crying. Funny you should ask. Today, in the grocery store, of all places, “Silent Night” a la Bing Crosby was playing & the waterworks started. Damn sneaky things, those tears! Certainly no expert but I can tell you what I DO know. At times in my life, in my deepest despair, crying was the ONLY thing that actually helped bring relief. I would go into my huge walk in closet, with all its insulation, & literally wail. I could see then what the importance of the Wailing Wall in Jeruselum was: a place for tears, mourning, lamentation. Releasing those emotions can be comforting & highly necessary for some..most. On the other hand, I had a close friend who never could cry but wished he could. He carried everything in his gut & felt pain internally, when he was sad or in distress or highly stressed. Again, no expert, but your list of possibilities, Jane, all seem viable. I like Stephen’s likening one’s emotional feelings to “being alive”. I also agree with his notion that as we age, our defenses are lowered as we care less about what those around us think. Nice to look upon aging as “freeing” & that some aspects are actually positive. As a life-long crybaby, I swear: though tears may fall equally, it’s a whole lot more fun to cry for joy than cry in agony.  

And, don’t think for a moment, I didn’t use tears as my go-to weapon in keeping my brothers at bay all through childhood or keeping some cop from issuing a ticket or compelling another cop to allow me to pass my driving test the third time out. That taught me to ‘cry on-cue’ which gave me many a stage role, too. Oops, TMI ! 😅

Glen Hirose

Jane, Nori,

I think crying is a healthy human emotional response; it shows empathy.  Those few that never cry could be the very ones that go "Postal".

I'll bet these guys never cry...

Nora Skinker (Morton)

They may be tested very soon.....

Stephen Hatchett

Crying seems to be uniquely human. Lord knows, all kinds of other animals feel grief or joy or empathy, but apparently not even chimps or bonobos (our closest cousins) cry.  I felt sure Sapolsky's book, "Behave", that I referred to earlier would say something about it, but nothing I could find in the index, althoug I'm a long way from finishing it.  So why did that evolvle with us?   

Jane, like you, I always look for  the evolutionary perspective.  After all, evolution by natural selection is the most powerful idea in all of science (wish I remembered who said that first so I could give him/her credit)  We do get a release from crying --maybe its somehow the safest way for a social animal like us to get such a release -- as opposed to say a rage filled vent, which is all too often the way males who don't/can't cry seem to find release.  But tears upon hearing Pachelbel???  Maybe that's a side effect.  I think evolution is full of such -- side effects that don't decrease fitness are just left in place. But such good-thing tears do not feel like a mere side effect -- to me, at least, they feel like a good thing, something my brain wants me to reinforce!

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Wondering what you guys think about the concept that, because, generally speaking, men have been socialized to refrain from displaying emotion, specifically crying, could that be a connection as to why their lives are shorter than women? As I mentioned my friend who held his emotions in-check & suffered inwardly as a result, his health has taken a toll. The “release” to which Stephen refers may be more essential than we know. Like Caribbean islands need storms to “cleanse” the flora & fauna, a good cry may be nature’s way of cleansing body & soul. 

Glen Hirose

Well Nori I have given this some thought, and I think it just might be that men tend to have a bit less common sense.

Edwin (Ned) Hege

...evolution by natural selection...

- Charles Darwin.

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Ya think? 🤓

Jane Cosson (Souzon)

sure i agree with these ideas about a human need for 'cleansing" and "release" from sadness/stress,  but they don't  reach the questions of  1) " why water thru the eyes'--maybe that's  just the easiest place for the cleansing water to get out of the body?  but no, why don't we just pee--or sweat-- to release our stress/sadness?)  or 2) why the phenomenon of "good" crying--why do we need a water 'release' when feeling happy?  Perhaps its better described as not just 'happy', but something bigger, a sense of 'alls right with the world', ie a sense of unity with creation....back to my first theory, its what happens when two cells come together, a sort of 'squishing', which causes water to come out.

Did i mention my other question, why do we laugh?  Again, the literal, physical question, tho harder to describe, something about sharp outbreaths combined with short one syllable vocalizations, hah hah hah.

Stephen Hatchett

And theater seems to have evolved to either make us laugh or cry!

Stephen Hatchett

Some useful insights at https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/emotions/crying.htm   , but not much on the evolutionary perspective, why crying (but not laughter) may be uniquely human, or what brain circuits are involved.  And not much on cultural variations, though there is a sentence on Japanese crying "clubs" .  

Jerry Morgan

Alas The Vista Baby

Nora Skinker (Morton)

In keeping with the “crying” theme: For those who may be disappointed about The Supreme Court’s recent 7-5 decision in support of Trump’s revised immigration policy, it may be beneficial to harken back & review online Clinton’s 1995 SOTU speech & think about what SHOULD be done. The need to temporarily filter undocumented immigrants (& relatives of those already here) from 9 of the most seriously dangerous countries in the world, seems totally reasonable, considering the radical elements known (& unknown) to our intelligence community. As for the wall: To further point out the need, we are losing one American every 9 minutes to opioid addiction, as we supply the Mexican drug cartels all the demand they need to methodically destroy our citizens & continue to corrupt, in every way possible, their own country. This situation is a “crying shame”! I appeal to the Left loyalists: what would Bill Clinton do? 

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Am watching footage of the horrendous fires raging in the LA area. Jeez, hasn’t California had enough fires this year!? Am sure I speak for all classmates, when I say we’re praying & pulling for Joan & others to be out of harm’s way. And, if anyone has information, please share. 

Glen Hirose

Absolutely Nori,

I'm sure we are all praying for those Californians ( classmates especially) in harms way. 

Joan Ruggles (Young)

I'm fine and thanks for those who have messaged me privately. Currently the fires are about 10 miles away and to be honest, I look outside and see blue skies and no signs of danger. I see events such as these and I think always of climate change. We have had a multi year drought and today in Los Angeles we have 5% humidity. You couldn't describe a better scenario for wildfires. The president has offered his "thoughts and prayers" so that cliche ain't gonna help us but to be honest, the houses that are currently burning down are in liberal neighborhoods such as Bel Air and Brentwood, so his concerns are minimal. However I did hear that Rupert Murdoch's 30 million $ estate and vineyard is threatened so maybe Donald really is concerned. Sweet guy.

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Oh, thank GAWD you & your bitter sweet cynicism remain intact & under blue skies, Joan!  Perhaps Mueller will be the one to ultimately save California from further fire & smoke-filled skies. One can only hope. 😉

As for prayers not helping, MY prayers apparently are, because I’ve been praying for you. 

Stay safe & thanks for touching base. 

Robert Hall

This is the view from the Burbank area of the smoke from the Creek fire.  Apparently a primary danger to residents is the rapid loss of cell towers that makes it impossible to notify residents during the night unless they have a secondary way of being contacted.  Fire fighters and emergency personnel must go door to door to warn people.  Our thoughts are with you SoCal folks.

Robert Hall

Glen Hirose

  Friends sharing a moment of great relief at the end of the game...

                          Jack? Has anyone seen Jack?

Stephen Hatchett

And if anyone tries to tell you that only humans laugh -- show 'em Glen's donkey pic below!  That is a gem. (But I'm seriously prejudiced as 3 miniature donkeys share our place with my wife and I and two dogs.)

Robert Hall

Glen Hirose

I think Brinkley here is showing us his total satisfaction with tonight's scrumptious meal of Beneful, table scraps, and Aquafina.

  Still not a peep from Jack...where could he be?

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Is Brinkley really your pooch, Glen? What a beauty! You have my permission to share more photos of him ANY time! 👍