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Message Forum - GENERAL

Welcome to the Bethesda Chevy Chase High School Message Forum.

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08/14/18 10:12 PM #6478    


Nancy Webster (Emery)

Okay...Let us all go out for Pizza... Pizza,,, Pizza!!!cheeky

08/14/18 11:11 PM #6479    


Nora Skinker (Morton)

It’s interesting to me that you find that particular metaphor somehow evil when the fact that many who were against the Iraqi War used it as a reason to let Iran & Iraq continue destroying each other & that, from their viewpoints, the US was better off backing away & refraining from interfering at all. I guess using metaphors about war should be prohibited by those members of the clergy? Not sure what you’re getting at there. But, at any rate, to me, Fischer’s article was to theorize about Trump’s choices. I appreciate your addressing that, Joanie. If, in deed, Putin DOES have something on Trump, we should find that out with revelations from the Mueller investigation. Even so, Fischer’s theory could also have merit, if indeed, Trump uses bazaar inconsistencies to work in his favor, i.e., coming off as a powerful opponent who cannot be trusted or taken advantage of. After all, he is anything but consistent. THAT is consistently true. 


08/15/18 07:53 AM #6480    


Jack Mallory

Jackals, vermin, terrorists, cockroaches, dogs, savages, heathen, slopes, dinks, gooks, Japs, other ethnic epithets, all terms used historically to dehumanize and facilitate mistreatment or killing. I'm not surprised when bigoted politicians use these terms to justify brutal domestic and military policies. I am still, naively, surprised and disappointed when the clergy behave similarly. 

I'm pretty much a 1st Amendment absolutist, and would resist your suggestion that these words be prohibited. I can simply refuse to honor the author with my attention, my vote or my faith. Their ignorance, or deliberate obfuscation, of history confirms that decision. You may choose otherwise. 

08/15/18 08:28 AM #6481    


Nora Skinker (Morton)

When you’ve finished ruminating over his use or misuse of metaphor, & knowing how intelligent you are, I for one would be interested in your opinion of Fischer’s  possible assessment of Trump’s behaviors. Do they make any sense at all to you? You most likely feel as Joanie (who dispels them altogether) but was hoping you could comment further. Was his metaphor re NATO vs. Trump off course, humorous, some or none of the above? 

Looks like the Braves are coming in hot, Glen. The Nats better rev their jets. And soon. Btw, love the pepp pizza photo. Looked like it was fresh out of Grotto’s oven! 

08/15/18 09:23 AM #6482    


Jack Mallory

Metaphor was your excuse for him, Nora. I just thought he was an ignorant, callous asshole who had never seen or even thought very much about war. Once I’ve got someone figured out as an ignorant, callous asshole I lose any further interest in their assessments of anything. Narrow-minded of me, but life is short, got to prioritize my attention span. 

08/15/18 09:51 AM #6483    


Glen Hirose


The Nats' strategy for the Cards should be: “Don’t give the game away in the 9th to a walk off home run.”


There is a Ledo's next to Westfield Mall in a tiny strip shopping center.  I tried the pizza, but it just didn't seem the same as Ledo's of College Park. 


08/15/18 02:56 PM #6484    


Nora Skinker (Morton)

Wow, & you got THAT much information about that Rabbi after reading his first paragraph! Whew, it must be tough having to tolerate the ignorant throngs of Americans who haven’t shared your similar war experiences, Jack. But, when/if you’d like to shed some anger, relax & actually have some friendly back-&-forth about our Prez, NATO, Putin (& maybe even learn a little something from each other), I’ll be happy to join in. 

Gotta say, Glen, if they can’t at least capture the wild card spot after all their talent, gonna be beyond disappointing. Good thing the fat lady’s a long way off. 

Robert, meant to tell you that I was hired by Central Casting as an extra on the movie set of “Dave” with Sigourney Weaver & Kevin Kline way back when. Is that the same story line of the stage production to which you referred? 

08/15/18 03:26 PM #6485    


Jack Mallory

Iraq and Iran beautifully were engaged in killing each other for years . . .”

Doesn't take a saint to recognize a callous asshole, doesn't take a vet to understand that the brutal deaths of millions, military and civilians, men women and children, ought not be described as beautiful in order to promote a political conclusion. I hope everyone would have a tough time tolerating that sentiment. But, as I said earlier, I still tend toward hopeful naïveté.


08/15/18 06:36 PM #6486    


Robert Hall

Nori, the pre-broadway run of Dave at Arena (through this Sunday) is loosely based on the movie you worked on. But it's a musical and the actors and audience have a lot of fun together. It had to wait two years to get into Arena's schedule so it isn't about current politicians.

08/15/18 06:38 PM #6487    


Jack Mallory


Today and tomorrow, a hundred or more newspapers across the country are publishing individual editorials asserting the importance and independence of a free press in the face of Stalinesque charges that the media are “enemies of the people.” 

The NYT, in its contribution to this effort, reminds us that in the Supreme Court's words, “debate on public issues should be uninhibited, robust, and wide‚Äźopen, and that it may well include vehement, caustic, and sometimes unpleasantly sharp attacks on government and public officials.” 

This media united front against attacks by Trump and the right includes not only the NYT, but less well-known elements of the MSM, if such they are. Small town papers across the country are asserting their importance in the dissemination of independent, accurate information, especially in an era of government obfuscation. The Wakaponeta Daily News, The Tomahawk Leader, Steele Ozone and Kidder County Press, The Hazen Star, and scores of other local newspapers will assert that, “We are not the enemy. We are the people.” as the Valencia County News Bulletin puts it. 

Check your local paper tomorrow, see if it has participated. If it has, let them know you appreciate their support of press freedom in the United States. 


And I just ran across this in The Atlantic. An interesting way to see freedom of the press:

“The freedom of the press is an individual liberty, not the peculiar privilege of a profession or an industry. It is your right as an American to read what you will, to write what you think, and to publish what you believe. The press is neither the enemy of the people nor its ally, but rather its possession. That is why attacks on the press, one of the great bulwarks of liberty, seek to abridge or deprive the people of their rights . . .”


Oh, hell, why not? Joan (another J!) is an uninhibited and robust supporter of the 1st Amendment! 


08/15/18 11:25 PM #6488    


Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Free speech is not valued by this President unless it's his free speech...I am tired of listening to his angry hateful talks. . He revokes security clearances of dissenters like John Brennan.

Glen, I agree that the Ledo's at College Park has the best Ledo's pizza. I had some that was good though in Gaithersburg. Love, Joanie

08/16/18 09:17 AM #6489    

Wolfgang Voegeli

With regard to the writings of that Rabbi which Nori posted: I have never ever read or heard anything less incompetent in a supposedly academic discussion. If any student of mine had made such a contribution in my class, I would have told him that he were in the wrong place. To get a sound foundation to the economic part of the vile rant that Nori reported, read: http://www.cesifo-group.de/ifoHome/presse/Pressemitteilungen/Pressemitteilungen-Archiv/2018/Q2/pm-20180622_handelsbilanz.html. Statistics both of the US-Government and the EU show that the current account betwenn these two has been more or less level for the last decade with the US achieving a slight surplus.  It is fairly silly to isolate trade in goods from trade in services and from investments and other payments.

08/16/18 09:51 AM #6490    


Nora Skinker (Morton)

Lots of rant & criticism here but I find it odd that not one J is willing to specifically discuss (pro or con) Fischer’s points. Or even suggest how Trump should deal with Putin or NATO effectively, given that past negotiations have gone nowhere. Oh, well. Whether it’s Brennan, Griffin, Pearl Jam, the ever honorable Omarosa or Trump, never let it be said WE don’t have freedom of speech around here!!! Even if it’s just venom, this forum ROCKS! 

After yet another lousy loss to the Cards last night, pass me another slice of pizza. And I don’t give a rat’s where it comes from. I SO understand why it’s called ‘comfort’ food. 

Looking forward to seeing “Dave”. Arena is an excellent regional theatre but will wait & see it on Broadway, when the kinks are out. Thanks much, Robert! 


08/16/18 12:03 PM #6491    


Nora Skinker (Morton)

Incidentally, I had a secret (not top secret, however) clearance when I worked for The Strategic Systems Office (The Missile Branch of the Navy) in the early 70’s. Everyone took their clearances VERY seriously back then. I can pretty much guarantee I would have been promptly stripped of my clearance if I had been declaring on TV that the President had committed treason & was unfit for office. But, like today, it would have been my right to say it. The upshot is, though, that exercising  our rights have consequences. So, should you lose your job if you post on FB that your boss is a jerk? If you’re THAT stupid, yes! Blab away, Brennan. We, the American people, are STILL finding out the role you played in orchestrating the demise of this presidency. And I sleep better at night knowing that at the very least you won’t be carrying vital new governmental secrets to spill like confetti on New Year’s Eve. 

In other news, R.I.P. Aretha, Queen of Soul. Thanks for the melodic memories. 

08/16/18 02:34 PM #6492    


Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Hi Nori, I did comment on the Rabbi's comments as I spoke about feeling that the tiptoeing around Putin was not a strategy but rather that Putin has something on Trump. I also spoke of the value of Nato, and cited their coming to our rescue in 9/11. I spoke of my concern about having Kravanaugh in because he has been very supportive of extreme powers of the Presidency to the point where it feels like the President is above the law. I guess I am one of the J's you referred to that you said hadn't commented on the Rabbi's comments since my name is Joanie...As for people losing their security clearance. it does appear that the bar to make the lose your security clearance list includes many who just don't agree with Trump. Sally Yates is even on the list and I found her to be a wonderful civil servant going to the White House to warn about Flynn but that all fell on deaf ears as he wasn't let go for 17 days after that and it was when the news became public. love, Joanie

08/16/18 04:35 PM #6493    


Jerry Morgan

I do not post to bots and some comments act just like a Puking bot.  Here are some of my GC pics. 

08/16/18 04:36 PM #6494    


Jerry Morgan

08/16/18 04:37 PM #6495    


Jerry Morgan

08/16/18 04:39 PM #6496    


Jerry Morgan

08/16/18 04:52 PM #6497    


Jerry Morgan

Some of these we bought at the Skybridge and others we took ourselves.  You could not take a camera onto the bridge.  The Native Americans that owned the bridge (On their reservation) said it was out of fear of someone dropping their camera over the railing but I believe it was part that and part so they could sell you pictures.  In any case we took pics and bought some.  It was a great way to see the canyon for us less active folks.  That is if you didn't get vertigo from looking down through an all glass walkway out over the canyon. 

08/16/18 04:58 PM #6498    


Jack Mallory

Great pix, Jerry! The one with the fog is stunning. A different perspective from mine, up looking down!


Wolfgang--I hope you could tell from the responses that not everyone on the Forum can be taken in by Fischer's twaddle. The economic data you reference is readily available here, and has been widely reported by the media. 


When I taught at Penn State there was a fundamentalist preacher who espoused the gospel of the young earth and creationism on a corner of campus. He came into my classroom one day in the middle of lecture and challenged me to debate creation vs. evolution. I told him I would no more take the time to debate him than I would debate a Flat Earther and threw him out of the room. When someone is disseminating obvious baloney there is no need to honor them with the time and effort of a response. The Rabbi falls into that category. 


For what it's worth, I had a Top Secret (Crypto) clearance as an SF officer. In Vietnam, none of the young officers that I knew gave a good goddam about clearances when they bitched about the war and the stupid decisions of Pentagon officers and the Commander in Chief (Nixon). The free speech of serving military and veterans played a significant part in bringing an evil war to an end.

The loyalty that my security clearance process must have demonstrated meant nothing when I took an anti-war, anti-Nixon political stance. I committed no crimes; my only offense was speaking my political mind, but I got an FBI investigation, a CIA file, and a designation as a domestic security threat. I suppose that as a reserve officer they could also have pulled my security clearance as further punishment for expressing my opinions.

The point to freedom of speech is that people should be able to express themselves without fear of government retribution, whether they are government employees, ex-government employees, or private citizens. I'm stupid enough to believe that's true, and on the day we give up that belief the totalitarians will win. 


Back on NH waters again. Our canyons may not be as Grand, but our Blue Herons are Greater!

08/16/18 06:47 PM #6499    


Jack Mallory

Joanie, join me in taking some comfort in knowing that there are still people of honor and integrity in public service. 


Admiral McRaven stands up for John Bolton, says it would be an honor for Trump to take his security clearance away so he can add his “name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency.” He's welcome to my clearance, too. Maybe it's still stuffed away somewhere in a file drawer in the Pentagon!

I wonder what kind of slime Trump and his supporters will allege against McRaven to explain this away. 


08/16/18 06:50 PM #6500    


Glen Hirose

And on to football all-be-it preseason; the menu is something to look forward to. 

Time tested tried and true:

   Image result for italian cold cut sub Related image


08/16/18 10:13 PM #6501    


Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Yes, Jack, I do take comfort in the Admiral taking a stand like that saying to revoke his security clearance. I just got back from a synagogue event in support of the Immigrants and the suffering they are going through....one of the songs that was so poignant that was sang was This Land is Your Land...https://www.woodyguthrie.org/Lyrics/This_Land.htm     The rabbi who plays guitar and was in a group that sang songs said in Judaism there are two things that are the most important, God and welcoming strangers...Jewish atheists are also welcome though but I love the welcoming strangers thought. there are wonderful groups helping the Immigrants, like ACLU and others....

Love, Joanie

08/16/18 11:38 PM #6502    


Nora Skinker (Morton)

Yes, you did certainly respond, Joanie. I stand corrected. Though I am left wondering if Trump had blistered Putin, would you’d have thought Trump was war-mongering like Reagan when he blistered Gorbachev way back when? It seems there is nothing Trump can say or do that won’t be roundly condemned by the Left. But hey, I realize that most of what you see & read is information meant to influence political positions. There’s no getting away from it. I thought that was a lovely tribute from the Admiral about Brennan. Am sure he has done good work. From the way the FISA scandal seems to be unfolding, however, he has been up to some mischief, too. We shall see how that pans out. In the meantime, it’s important, I think, to remember that no one is questioning Brennan’s right to express his feelings. One obviously doesn’t lose that right when one loses one’s  clearance. Remember, too, that Trump is exercising his right to revoke Brennan’s clearance, as well.  As far as your active participation re immigrants: that is nice you want our country to welcome strangers. I think we all want that. But some of us want to know who they are, before they disappear into the shadows, harm children, deal drugs or threaten us harm. It makes sense, like teaching our children not to talk to strangers. I would be interested, too, in knowing how you would level the playing field with NATO & NAFTA. Presidents from both parties have known it has been unfair for many years, complained about it & then done nothing. Like with immigration reform, presidents & politicians have promised it, campaigned on it, complained about it & done nothing. For 8 years under Obama, the poor got poorer. Many Liberal policies, once so hopefully implemented in cities like Chicago, Baltimore, LA, have tragically failed to better living conditions &, coupled with an unclear, inconsistent support of law enforcement, have worsened. So far, I have not heard Left leaning politicians put forth new ideas. Hating Trump is the message du jour, day after repetitive day. With that said, what would you like to see implemented that will bring real change to these areas of concern? Are you aligning with the moderates who seem to be phasing out for a younger, more progressive set of voices? And what do you foresee in November? 

Glen, thankfully they won tonight. But, at 8 out, they have to hustle. And, I think I gained 3 pounds just looking at that stacked plate of divinity. If that’s an indication of the start of football season, I’m in! Comfort time!! 

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