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Message Forum - GENERAL

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07/06/20 02:23 PM #12349    


Joan Ruggles (Young)

While we're all reminicing on July 4th 1976, here's my memory. 

It was the 3rd of July 1976. I was living in Philadelphia. Three friends and I had gone out to dinner and decided to walk over to Independence Hall. We arrived and it was deserted. As we stood there looking up at the building, the clock struck midnight. It was now July 4th 1976 exactly 200 years since the original Independence day on this very spot. We all got chills. The door was open so we walked inside Independence Hall and there was a lone African American park ranger on duty. He began to tell us the story of Independence Hall. It was just the four of us and him. Later we marveled that more than likely, the park ranger’s ancestors had been in slavery 200 years earlier and what an honor it was to be hearing the story from him on that particular day.

Speaking of being an archaeologist before it was cool. I was a free lance photographer beore it was cool and as a woman, I was one of very few women photgraphers in Philadelphia at the time. Then along came the film Blowup and everybody got themselves a 35mm camera and everybody was a photographer. 




07/06/20 02:44 PM #12350    


Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Joan, thanks for that moving story. I see you like Jack have worn different hats, pastry chef, photographer, etc. Love, joanie

07/06/20 03:29 PM #12351    


Jack Mallory

Great Fourth of July story, Joan. At least they didn't change the way photography is spelled. And then the world went digital!

Good article on history and memorials in the New Yorker.


"The statues really need to go, first of all. And they’re going. It’s a symbolic act, but an important symbol. And the idea that the statues are about history or heritage is ridiculous. We don’t memorialize every piece of our heritage. We pick out what we want people to remember. Monuments are visible values. They portray the men and women who embodied the values that we want our community to share, that we want our children to learn. So they have to go. And hopefully that process should be a democratic and public one. They don’t all need to go into the harbor. Contextualization can be an option in some cases. It really needs to be decided case by case. But we have to acknowledge that we’re not upholding history, we’re upholding values, and those are not the values that we want in the twenty-first century."


07/07/20 12:12 AM #12352    


Nora Skinker (Morton)

07/07/20 07:06 AM #12353    


Jack Mallory

Tucker Carlson joins Trump's attacks on critics by describing Tammy Duckworth and other Democratic leaders as people who "actually hate America."

Carlson is more specific in calling Duckworth a "deeply silly and unimpressive person." 


Not sinking to the depths of profanity that I would resort to, the silly and unimpressive Senator Duckworth invited Carlson to "walk a mile in my legs and then tell me I don't love America."

Do those Trump supporters who are decent human beings feel like they should wear masks to protect themselves from human scum (to borrow Trump's words) particles given off by supporters like Carlson?

Attacks on POWs in 2015, wounded veterans in 2020.  Making America Great Again.


07/07/20 07:20 AM #12354    


Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Jack, that's a powerful message from Tammy Duckworth. Love, joanie

07/07/20 07:42 AM #12355    


Nora Skinker (Morton)

 Is that the same Tammy Duckworth who said just last week that she'd block more than 1000 military promotions unless & until Vindmann was granted a promotion? Her reasoning had something to do with "no Commander In Chief should meddle in military affairs"? Hmm. Are we to assume it's ok for a Senator to meddle? 
  Or am I a bad person for pointing out her hypocrisy since she was badly wounded for bravely serving our country? If she thinks it troublesome to be criticized, she really ought to get out of politics. 


07/07/20 08:20 AM #12356    


Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Good for Tammy Duckworth standing up for Colonol Vindman, who did nothing wrong but was subpoenaed to testify about what he knew. For that he is being punished by Trump. If he is not promoted to Colonel, it would in effect end his military career...this is a travesty. Duckworth holding up the promotions would not be permanent but make it more time consuming to process them...she is taking a stand for this travesty going on with the treatment of Colonel Vindman by Trump. Love, Joanie


07/07/20 09:09 AM #12357    


Nora Skinker (Morton)

Yes. Good for her. Not so good for the 1000 others who earned promotions, however. It's hypocritical meddling ..when all she had to do was call an investigation into Trump's decision to thwart Vindman's impending promotion IF HE EVER DID such a thing, which he hasn't. Her statement feeds the impeachment emotions still swirling among Dems.  
That might be good politically but, if she winds up on the ticket, she loses 1000 votes come November. That there is politics! 

07/07/20 09:41 AM #12358    


Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Here's another very good article. Love, Joanie


07/07/20 10:15 AM #12359    


Glen Hirose

I have been watching golf for years, but it just lacks that little touch of violence a good bench clearing brawl in Baseball, Football, or Hockey give each of those sports. 


   How much more exciting would Golf be if honors at each tee were determined by the golfer whose knee hits the ground first?


07/07/20 10:19 AM #12360    


Jack Mallory

"no Commander In Chief should meddle in military affairs"

When we use quotation marks, it's expected that we actually quote the source without changes--and provide a reference so we can check it. Otherwise, it's a dishonest representation of what the speaker said.

For example:

"Well, what brought me to this point was just seeing time and again the White House meddle in what should be routine military affairs - right? - a military that is supposed to be apolitical. You know, I'll give you an example. Lt. Col. Vindman's being on this promotion list - he was placed on it by his superiors. So three higher-ranking officers had to agree that he should be promoted. And if he's on the list, he deserves to go forward in a routine way as everyone else."

Senator Duckworth's actual words, unaltered to fit an agenda. 


I believe that accusing a veteran who sacrificed both legs while serving her country as likely to be part of a "hate America" movement is not simple criticism, as Nora casually refers to it, but a foul and disgusting lie. 

Or is Lt. Col./Senator Duckworth not a real veteran? Does your expertise in identifying "real" Black people extend to veterans as well, Nora? 

07/07/20 10:49 AM #12361    


Nora Skinker (Morton)

I live with a retired English teacher of 36 years. Here is a FB posting from one of his former students, Lisa Rood Miller, which seems to encapsulate the feelings of many fellow Americans:

"My postiion on Donald Trump:

Make NO mistake, I am not posting this for debate.  I don't seek or need commentary.  It's okay if you don't agree because we are all entitled to our opinions. Just consider this: when you think the President is a jerk, he is.  He's a New Yorker.  He's crude and can be rude.  He gets his feelings hurt and he's a hothead. He hits back, then hits harder.  The media hates when he tweets.  Why?  Because he gets the information out, that they don't want to report.

Let me tell you what else:  he is a guy that demands performance.  If you don't work as hard as he does, you're fired! He is a guy who asks a lot of questions.  The questions he asks are not cloaked in fancy "political" phrases; they are "why the hell...." questions.

For decades the health industry has thrown away billions of face masks after one use.  Trump asks, "Why are they throwing them away? Why not sterilize them and use them numerous times?"  They called him stupid.  What are they doing now? Sterilizing face masks.

He's the guy who gets hospital ships readied in one week, when it would have taken bureaucrats weeks, or months to get it done.

He's the guy who gets temporary hospitals built in three days. They said no way he could do it.

He's the guy who gets hospital industries to restructure, to bulld ventilators in a business that's highly regulated by agencies that move like sloths.

He's the guy who asks "Why aren't we using drugs that might work on people who are dying?  What the hell do we have to lose?"

He's the guy who restricted travel from China, when the Democrats, and liberal media were screaming, "xenophobia" and "racist". Now they're wanting to know why he didn't react sooner?

He's the guy who campaigned on securing the border - protecting America - in the face of screaming Democrats and the liberal media. (Both Clinton and Obama talked about a crisis at the border, and Obama did some things to address the crisis, but they proved insufficent.)  When Trump shut down borders in the midst of the corona virus, they screamed louder. Then, the rest of the world followed suit, including the European Union, with travel between their member countries.  His policy is always 'America First.'  For many years we have complained about sending billions abroad, while Americans suffer here.  He's minimized that ouflow of money.

Has he made mistakes? Yes. Everyone I know has, and does.

The "experts" wouldn't and haven't done any better.

Does he change his mind? Yes, who doesn't?

Trump is workiing harder than I've ever seen a President work.  Twenty-four hour days.  He isn't hiding in his office; he's out front - briefing - every day.  When he offers hope, they say he's lying, and, when he's straight forward, they say he should be hopeful.  It's a no-win situation, with the mainstream media, but he will not be deterred.

I'll take this kind of leaderlship six days a week and twice on Sunday over a "polished, nice guy" politicain, who reads prepared speeches from a teleprompter, and answers pre-scripted questions.

He's my President!" 


Foul and disgusting describe election politics quite well, Jack. Sorry to offend your safe space,  but hey, that's politics. Do you not remember far more destructive disgusting lies people on both sides of the aisle have told through the ages? Do I really have to list them? Did ya really think this year would be different? And do you think Joe Biden is exempt? hahahahaha

07/07/20 12:37 PM #12362    


Jack Mallory

What do retired English teachers say about using quotes, Nora? Don't they indicate that the words enclosed are the exact words of the speaker? Is altering Senator Duckworth's words and presenting them as a quote dishonest? Like bogus photographs?  Like phony crime statistics? Like so many forum posts we've seen in the past few years? 

Your dishonesty is relatively trivial and certainly doesn't  meet the standards set by Trump and his toady. But defending one set of lies with vague, unevidenced charges of other lies is a weak defense. Actually, not really a defense at all. 

Rather than let politics define what is morally acceptable, particularly the value of truth telling, I'll stick with what mom and dad taught me, and what life has taught me since. I know this is naive and foolish from your Trumpian perspective, but what matters to me at the end of the day is whether I lived the day by my own values, not the low bar set by some politicians and their supporters. That's my safe space. You've clearly made different choices, which is your right. 

07/07/20 12:40 PM #12363    


Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

I disagree with that post, but don't want to list all the reasons as I've been listing them for years now. I will just say a very few things opposite that post. Trump is responsible for the cruelty at the border separating children from their parents, and the stoking of racial divisions and the encouragement against mask wearing and taking away social distance signs on benches at the Tulsa rally to give a nice crowd size look . Yes Trump is willing to forget about people's health. Fortunately most Americans also disagree as Trump's approval rating is 38 percent. Love joanie

07/07/20 01:01 PM #12364    


Robert Hall

It would be interesting to know how recently the person Nori quoted actually posted that comment. I know a couple of people who sincerely feel the same way. In their case they follow Fox News, Breitbart, and other such sources that have catered to the market they represent. But our country and the world in which it must operate is much more diverse and complicated than the one described by Hannity, Carlson and others who have gotten wealthy trying to catch up to Rush Limbaugh's success.
What is hopeful is that our country's bedrock values--and not Trumpian cliches and excess--are capable of meeting the challenges that Trump and his "true believers" refuse to even believe are real. Be sure to remember them this November. Remember that there are people who truly want to believe that Donald J. Trump works 24 hours a day, that he works harder than any other president and that only he has America's best interests at heart. Remember these fellow Americans and VOTE to prevent them from allowing this lazy, incompetent, immoral, lying reality TV personality to do more damage to our country. These are truly dangerous times for the United States.

07/07/20 01:33 PM #12365    


Jack Mallory

Weird. Nora's friend's friend Lisa Rood Miller posts to Facebook, word for word, the same thing that Peter Kuo posts. Maybe great minds think alike, but THIS much alike?

goes on, same as Nora's post, verbatim.

Is one of them a bot? Are they both bots? That's the trouble with reposting unknown social media posters, we don't know WHO'S really writing stuff. At least with E.J. Dionne or Newt Gingrich we know who we're getting! I'm pretty sure Newt's not a bot . . . 


If you ever find yourself in the woods trying desperately to distinguish between a Snapping Turtle and a Blanding's Turtle (I know many of you frequently find yourselves in this situation), here's some help:

                   Blandings                                                                        Snapper


How about this, Helen--any help?

07/07/20 02:00 PM #12366    


Jack Mallory

Nice post, Robert.


Since Nora finds lies justifiable as part of political discourse, and since we've thrown verifiability to the winds by reposting social media blather, I'm sure no one will object to a NYT peek at the latest in Trumpiography.

Cheating on a College Entrance Test
As a high school student in Queens, Ms. Trump writes, Donald Trump paid someone to take a precollegiate test, the SAT, on his behalf. The high score the proxy earned for him, Ms. Trump adds, helped the young Mr. Trump to later gain admittance as an undergraduate to the University of Pennsylvania’s prestigious Wharton business school."

No Principles,” a Sister Says
“He’s a clown — this will never happen,” she quotes her aunt as saying during one of their regular lunches in 2015, just after Mr. Trump announced that he was running for president.

"Maryanne Trump was particularly baffled by support for her brother among evangelical Christians, according to the book. “The only time Donald went to church was when the cameras were there,” Ms. Trump quotes her aunt as saying. “It’s mind boggling. But that’s all about his base. He has no principles. None!”

Donald Trump, Narcissist
"Ms. Trump, a clinical psychologist, asserts that her uncle has all nine clinical criteria for being a narcissist. And yet, she notes, even that label does not capture the full array of the president’s psychological troubles.

“The fact is,” she writes, “Donald’s pathologies are so complex and his behaviors so often inexplicable that coming up with an accurate and comprehensive diagnosis would require a full battery of psychological and neurophysical tests that he’ll never sit for.”

“Donald’s ego has been and is a fragile and inadequate barrier between him and the real world, which, thanks to his father’s money and power, he never had to negotiate by himself.”


07/07/20 03:08 PM #12367    


Helen Lambie (Goldstein)

You've stumped me Jack. I've looked and looked online but can't find out what it is. Is it from a bush or tree? I've looked at both but maybe with a little more info I can find it. Does it grow in sun or shade?

It will be fascinating to hear Trump's reaction to all that is laid out in his niece's book. Of course it will all be lies, but how much will he be able to criticize his niece without criticizing himself, or did she just receive genes from her mother and none from the Trumps? And also will be interesting to see others on the forum make excuses for what she reveals about her uncle. Stay tuned!

07/07/20 04:51 PM #12368    


Jack Mallory

Bush on the edge of the east side of the river, Helen. So shaded all morning, sun for a few hours in the pm, I guess.


The Trump book does have the ring of a seedy tell-all, given the timing of its publication and what may be a lot of unverifiable claims. I guess the bits I quoted are teasers released by the publisher. The NYT describes it as ". . . a multigenerational saga of greed, betrayal and internecine tension . . ." which also sounds like publisher's cover jargon. The book is due out in a couple of weeks, and I'm sure the Times will review it with more analysis of its reliability than FB provides on the words of Ms. Miller/Mr. Kuo/the Russian Internet Research Agency or whoever really wrote the piece Nora posted.

Not my usual genre--I won't be waiting with bated breath like I was for Mayday 1971--and I won't read it. Besides, all the juicy bits, true or not, will eventually be smeared all over the media!

The trouble with declaring truth irrelevant because everybody lies is that sometimes someone will lie, and tell the truth, about people you support. But those who get their reality from Fox and Face Book don't much care which is which. 



07/07/20 07:42 PM #12369    


Helen Lambie (Goldstein)

I've got the answer, but not through my searching. I posted the photo on nextdoor.com and my clever neighbors answered quickly. It is Thalictrum pubescens -Pursh tall meadow-rue


07/07/20 08:21 PM #12370    


Jack Mallory

Bingo! Blooms late--just noticed it today though I walk by there daily. Shores of rivers and lakes. Exactly.

OK, if you're so smart tell me who REALLY wrote that diatribe Nora posted: Lisa, Peter, or Vladimir?

07/07/20 08:59 PM #12371    


Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Helen is a very good flower detective. I am very impressed. Love, Joanie

07/07/20 09:47 PM #12372    


Helen Lambie (Goldstein)

Thanks, Joanie--I've got lots of time on my hands. Jack, an earlier post appears on FaceBook on May 9 by Drain The Swamp Now @fear4freedom. It tacks on at the end "Copy and share if you agree." so maybe it is the first? Don't know and don't really care. Crap is crap, no matter who posted it first. I am no longer a "member" of FaceBook so can't research much more there. And I'm still now sure how being an English teacher for 26 years figures into any of this.

07/07/20 09:56 PM #12373    


Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Hey, this is no surprise...Trump is saying all foreign students have to leave if they are attending only online classes, and so they have to risk their lives by going to an in person class to stay in this country...hmm...sounds like Trump.  I wish there was an edict that a President who causes such heartache and devastation to a country has to leave immediately. Anyway, Its our loss for these students to go. Love, Joanie


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