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Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

I almost have nothing I can say positive about Trump but I am happy he has been able to bring back different prisoners in different countries who were captured. Love, Joanie
 

Jay Shackford

Go Skins!  Joanie makes some very good points in the previous posts.  

But I agree with Nori on one thing -- getting damn tired of talking about Brett.  Let's turn the conversation to The Donald.  And let me make a few comments about our Presidents and their golf addictions, since golf is one of the few things I know anything about.  Through May 18 of 2018, Trump played 56 rounds of golf compared to 37 rounds by Obama during the same period of time of his second year in office.  During Trump's first year in office, he stayed 95 nights at his four signature courses in New Jersey, Virginia and Florida.  At his current rate and assuming he's elected and serves a full second term (God forbid), Trump will compete with Ike for playing the most golf of any U.S. President ever.  According to the Golf Channel and Golf Digest, Ike played between 800 and 1,200 rounds during his eight years in office.  Nobody was keeping count back in those days.  During Obama's entire eight years in office, he played between 306 and 333 rounds, depending on whose numbers you want to believe.  

I'm an avid golfer and don't begrudge Trump or anyone else for playing a lot of golf.  Truthfully, we are all safer when Trump is on the links rather than in the Oval Office tweeting a stream of insults to anyone who might catch his attention that day.  So arguing about who played more rounds of golf is a little crazy.  But I bring it up because Trump and his supporters mocked Obama endlessly for playing too much golf and ignoring his duties as President.  Really?  

Jane Cosson (Souzon)

Uh oh.  I fear i may have been misunderstood.  I was NOT speaking in the 'objective' voice when i  referred to the Ford/Kav event as something like 'boys' fun', ie i was NOT condoniing the event itself ( which i believe Ford's every word about) as 'boys fun'.  I was addressing only the subjective point of Kav's memory--what did he actually believe as he testified--if he honestly did not remember it, then he wasn't 'lying'--and i believe that sexual episodes like this mean so little to many? most? 17 year-old boys, especially drunken ones, that he may well not remember.  (Also especially since, from his point of view,  it 'failed'--all the more reason to forget it.) 

Again, i was addressing only his memory;  i'm not suggesting that all drunken 17 year olds would do this--i don't believe either my brother nor any of the men 'in my life' would.  And whatever the proportion of 17 year olds who would do this, that doesn't make it objectively OK, nor does it excuse the trashing of due process that the quick n dirty FBI investigation and other aspects of the proceeding represented.  (After watching Grassley perform, i'm looking into having my Iowa birth certificate rescinded.)

And i do believe we haven't heard the end of Kavanaugh issues.  Besides issues arising from his time in the White House, I'll be interested to see the next abortion case in the supreme court (I can't bring myself to capitalize it at the moment).   As i understand it, susan collins finally voted for him because he assured her that he believes in "precedent" and that he considers Roe to be 'settled law'.  I think she's not a lawyer, and wonder if  she just took those assurances to mean that whatever    the specific law or facts involved in the next case involving 'abortion', he will vote to allow abortion to the same extent Roe does.  Did she understand that its a lawyer's job to distinguish 'precedents' and 'settled law' that he/she doesn't like from the ones he/she does like?  So in the next abortion case,  will he vote for a decision which bows to 'precedent' by discussing Roe at length, but then goes on to explain why the case now before them is...different?

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Sorry, Jay, but the ‘tit for tatting’ that goes on when comparing Presidents is an exercise in futility & is lost on me. Shall we compare the millions of taxpayer dollars in Obama personal travel expenditures to Trump’s? To Bush’s? It all just seems silly to me, like what fashion designers the First Ladies wear. 

Not sure who laughed harder when I shared that one of my classmates called me a “tea party” Republican. Joanie, please let me know how & where you got that idea? What did I say to take me away from my usual “moderate” positions? And, while you’re at it, what is your definition of “main stream” politics? Just curious. 

Redskin fans: Peterson should be MVP today. He was a freakin’ animal! 

Jack Mallory

4:16 pm: “Sorry, Jay, but the ‘tit for tatting’ that goes on when comparing Presidents is an exercise in futility & is lost on me.“

1:13 pm: “Joanie, having followed politics for many years, I could probably match you point by point the number of times politicians from both parties have stoked their bases with venom & vitriol towards the opposition. Just this week, Hillary Clinton declared there could be no civility shown towards the Republican Party.

Sure looks like titting for tatting to me  

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Nori, I am sorry if I offended you and I misspoke too as you are not a teaparty person. I remember you said you were for the Dreamers getting a path to citizenship and you have other opinions not with the teaparty. You like Niki Haley, who certainly is not a teaparty person. You do seem to be all in for Trump though, except for the style and gross comments of Trump. That is your right. We can see how the elections go and how the public feels about him. For me as I've said I am very distraught with the things he has done to this country...to the environment, to the immigrants, to the attack on the FREE PRESS, to his cozing up with dictators, to what he has done on trade, to his divisiveness and to his spewing of hateful remarks. As I've said, will see how the public feels about how things are going in the midterms...Love, Joanie

Glen Hirose

Yup; I jinks the Caps.

23 to 17 Great "D" Washington!  57yd field goal was a bonus. 

Joan Ruggles (Young)

If anyone has an interest in helping turn out the vote, this is a good place to start. You send letters to unreliable voters including a statement about why you vote. You print out the letters from the website, sign them, adress the envelopes and stamp them. The cost is on you. You mail them October 30th so they arrive right before election day when they are known to have the most impact in influencing turnout. Best part for me is I don't have to talk to anybody or knock on strangers' doors.....and I can be watching a movie on TV. So far I've done 100.

https://votefwd.org/

Jack Mallory

Outstanding, Joan. Just signed up. Perfect for the retired person who want to be a meaningful part of a democracy. 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

thanks Joan, I will look into that. It would be wonderful if more people voted. Every vote does count as we have seen in past elections. Thank you for the info. Love, Joanie

Robert Hall

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Yes, my reference to Hillary’s divisive comments may have been a tit-for-tat but it was meant to be an example I cited to illustrate to Joanie how alike BOTH parties can be, when it comes to hostile divisiveness & the game of politics. 

Jay, after confessing indiscretions in your high school & college years, including even perhaps breaking the law, how & why is it that you would judge Kavanaugh as unworthy? I mean, setting aside the credentials earned, aren’t YOU a good & honest enough person to serve on the Supreme Court? And yet, you did things years ago that you wouldn’t dare do since? And how would you behave (after years of excellence & decency) now if, before your parents, wife, kids, friends & the world, a screaming mass of angry fellow citizens & grandstanding politicians were calling you a flasher, a gang rapist who drugged women, a liar & a drunk? Just curious. 

Jack Mallory

Sorry, Nora. Perhaps I was mistaking tit-for-tat with yabbut whataboutism, which we've seen so much of. 

Any evidence for the paid-off witnesses and collaborators you allege, or is this just “hostile divisiveness?” Do you believe everyone who appears on 60 Minutes is dishonest? Do you think some people might let big political agendas affect their honesty?

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Writing my first votefwd.org letters today!

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Going to have to force myself back onto the water. Temp 33 this morning. From yesterday, walking the dog:

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

I don't think Kavanaugh's rant about Clinton revenge etc. was warranted. For the most part, I thought the Democratic Senators treated Kavanaugh with respect even if they asked tough questions. He didn't treat Amy Klobachar or others with respect. There always are accusations out there in the world at large that are hurtful and panful but it doesn't justify a tirade against the opposition party during hearings to be an impartial Judge on the Supreme Court. Love, Joanie
 

Jay Shackford

Hey Nori, you raised an interesting hyperthetical question about why someone like me shouldn’t be able to be considered for a seat on the Supreme Court, despite my checkered past and youthful indiscretions — because I’ve become (your words, not mine) such a fine, upstanding man since then.  Well, I’m not quite sure that’s correct.  Second, I concede that I would never pass a thorough FBI background check.  Third, when it comes to picking a Supreme Court justice, we need to consider only the very best America has to offer — in character, legal intellect and judicial experience, sense of fairness, honesty and respect for the rule of law.  And someone who believes that nobody, including the President, is above the law. 

In my view, Kavanaugh failed that test.  Frankly, I don’t really care about his high school or college drinking sprees or other indiscretions as a kid.  But there’s more and more evidence piling up that indicates Brett was lying or telling less than the truth about his past before the Senate Judiciary Committee.  That’s what troubles me and makes him unworthy to sit on the highest court of the land. 

Nori, you also raised a somewhat bizarre theory that if this bedroom attack did indeed ocurr as Dr. Ford alleged, why didn’t Brett and Mark (two 17-year olds against one 15-year old girl) just finish the deal and rape her.  Look, we don’t know what happened in that bedroom.  Never will. To my knowledge, I’ve never suggested that Brett was a rapest.  I think he was an entitled little rich kid who was desperately trying to impress his buddies. That makes him a kind of jerk or asshole to put it more bluntly.  Had Dr. Ford been lying on the bed stark naked, poor Brett wouldn’t know what to do.  Would have scared the shit out of him.  If my memory is correct even Dr. Ford said in her testimony that she thought Kavanaugh was acting and attacking her primarily to impress his buddies. Remember, Brett went to an all boys Prep school — not BCC where we learned, sometimes awkwardly and painfully, how to relate to, interact with and date the opposite sex.  At Prep, all they did was brag about it.   

But, as President Trump said this morning when asked about mocking Dr. Ford,  “It really doesn’t matter because we won.”  If you want to dig into Trump’s twisted mind, read the transcript from last night’s 60 Minutes interview.  

For Trump, everything is transactional — the ends justify the means.  

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Yes, kinda reminds me of Harry Reid’s retort “well, it worked, didn’t it?”, when asked why he lied about Mitt Romney’s not paying his taxes. And we wonder why people don’t show up at the polls? 

As for Kavanaugh, I concede. And am profoundly sorry to find out you’re not the fine upstanding citizen I thought you were, Jay. Reality sucks 👊😉

Jack, absolutely no evidence to back up my claim that if there were viable witnesses to corroborate Ford’s testimony, they would come forward: for the money, for the fame, for civic duty, for patriotism, for pregnant women who want abortions, for kicks. Nope, just my experience watching pre-election politics for 60 years. 

Joanie, it must have upset you greatly when RBG threw her rant about Trump for the world to hear. 

Jack Mallory

Jay--you say scarcely a word I don't agree with. Ripping the words out of each other's mouths is wasting both our time. How about you take Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays (days I'm at the VA)? I'll take Tu, Th, Sat. We can share Sundays. 

Fortunately, the FBI seems to have confined itself to my anti-war activities, and ignored my (concensual) behaviors with female anti-warriors. In fact, come to think of it, women don't appear in my FBI file at all, only male co-conspirators. I think women made Jedgar nervous.

Can't believe I hadn't noted it before, but Jay is another J. We didn't really set this up, Nora. 

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The 21st Century has brought us Reality Lite, and now Christianity Lite. Don't like a fact? Deny it, or make up an alternative. Don't like seeing a behavior or virtue labeled sinful? Lower the bar!

Lying/bearing false witness? Find another word for it: kidding, exaggerating, mis-speaking, taken out of context, whatever.

Wrath? Perfectly OK if somebody's pissed you off.

Greed? That's what makes capitalism work.

Envy? Take whatever it is away from them, keep it for yourself.

Pride? If you're rich and powerful, nothing wrong with a little pride. And what's a PR department for?

Murder? Just call it collateral damage.

Torture? You mean enhanced interrogation. 

Adultery? Lust? Coveting thy neighbor's ass? Well, depends on what thy neighbor's ass looks like. And whether you've got a good legal department.

Get that bar low enough, and I see ordination in sight! Lack of church attendance and no credible show of faith not a problem: St. Jack the First!

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". . . if there were viable witnesses to corroborate Ford’s testimony, they would come forward: for the money, for the fame, for civic duty, for patriotism, for pregnant women who want abortions . . . my experience watching pre-election politics for 60 years." Really, Nora? When in the last 60 years were witnesses offered abortions? This is a piece of history I've NEVER heard of!

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Nori, when we bring up something that we think is not right you counter with finding something the other side, the Democrats do like Harry Reid's comments. . As for Supreme Court Justice Ginsberg saying something super negative about Trump, I think she was alarmed should he become President but she apologized as she realized that she shouldn't have said that. Love, Joanie

Jay Shackford

Hey Jack -- Understand.  Sorry about sucking all oxygen out of the room.  As much as I like arguing about politics, I'm getting a little worn out, too.   Will take a break from my political commentary for awhile.     

But Iet me ask the forum's sports fans -- Glenn and Nori in particular as well anyone else who follows sports-- what did you guys thinks about last night's game -- Patriots vs. the Chiefs.  It was one of the best games to watch that I've seen in years.  KC has a real gunslinger in Patrick Mahomes, and the kid looks like he's about 16 years old. Let's hope he stays healthy.  

The Skins game was fun too.  Let's make it two in a row.  

Jack Mallory

Post all the politics you like, Jay! I'll try not to add redundancy. And I don't do sports, so we won't overlap there. 

I see Trump believes a 400 lb. rogue Chinese hoaxer may have murdered the reporter for an American newspaper in the Saudi embassy in Ankara. Do I have the story right? I don't even want to think about the bone saw possibility. But, we wouldn't want this to decrease the profits of our arms industry, or come between Jared and his bro the Crown Prince. 

A gray and misty day along the Contoocook.

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Yes, Joanie. That’s what I do. Hopefully, allow each side to see how both parties are like in many ways when it comes to politics. Very little difference. Never lose that concept. They are equal in their capabilities! It’s their platforms/agendas that differentiate the two. 

Jay, enjoyed a dinner with Linda Fuchs tonight. We both live in Lewes.  She was telling me about how much she enjoyed you & your wife at the reunion & to tell you she says hey! Wish you’d been with us..we covered the Kavanaugh hearings & then some! 

As for the Chiefs/Pats last night: what a game! Had it gone on, I think the Chiefs would have ruled. Amazing 2nd half. How bout the Pats’ fan who was “disinvited” after throwing beer in the face of the Chief’s Hill after he caught a pass & scored a TD. Never a dull moment. If only there were that much scoring on any given Sunday! 

Wolfgang Voegeli

Here's a look from abroad for those who think that assigning BK to the bench of the Supreme Court is a great victory. It will turn out to be the opposite in the international standing of the Court in the long run. So far, Supreme Court judgments were studied abroad as sources of well argued support of human rights, of protection of minorities and of a democratic society. When I came to BCC I was looking forward to studying physics. Reading excerpts of Supreme Court judgments in the weekend newspaper I became enthusiastic about how law could uphold basic human values. The Supreme Court somehow seemed to me a symbol of human decency. That, of course, was a juvenile exageration. Nevertheless, reading these judgments induced me to study law. In the past decades I very often found inspiration in these judgments. But to us lawyers looking at this institution from abroad it has now lost all trustworthiness and indeed decency. The minority opinions will still be a source of inspiration. The judgements itself will probably be seen as right-wing political decisions. The Court will lose its standing in the world. For me, this is a sad development. It is nothing new, though. Scalia already was a chip in the international reputation of the Court. His essay on why a good christian can support the death penalty was always met with incredulous laughter in my classes. But the present develpment is disgraceful.

Jack Mallory

​Thank you, Wolfgang, again, for your overseas perspective on events here. As a lawyer's son I had access to his law books, one of which was a slim volume on the most important Supreme Court cases. I was surprised by the court's decisions on many issues—both impressed and depressed. But I have always maintained the hope that the court might be the institution that could save us from the worst tendencies of the other two branches of government. Sometimes, the moral weight of court decisions seems to have brought out the best in its justices: Hugo Black, a former Ku Klux Klansman, for example. 

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An unusual sports reference on my part: 50 years ago today. My hat's off to those who stand, or kneel, for justice. Wherever, whenever.

Nora Skinker (Morton)

I was somewhat curious about your phraseology, Jay, when you alluded to Kavanaugh as ‘a privileged rich kid showing off for his buddy.’ As a mom of 3 sons & 4 grandsons, how can I convey to them the importance of not showing off or is it unnecessary for me to even try? Though far from rich, I consider them privileged in some ways: two parents & extended family that cherish them & teach them responsibility, accredited educations, fairly safe neighborhoods, healthy food, spiritual nurturing. All this, yet I remember my sons being different when their guy friends were around. I see it already in my young grandsons. What’s the answer? Or is it just youth & has nothing to do with privilege or wealth? Thoughts? 

How sad for you, Wolfgang, to see strict Constitutionists as those making a mockery out of our Supreme Court. Oddly, Judge Kavanaugh’s voting record aligns with Merrick Garland 94% of the time. But, perhaps Garland is too far right for you, too? 

Jay Shackford

Jack, great pictures. Keep them coming.  John Carlos/Tommy Smith's powerful signal to the world, along with the female student kneeling over a fallen comrade at Kent State, and the South Vietnamese officer shooting a prisoner in the streets of Saigon, might be three of the most powerful images of our youth.  Like the mountain and nature shots as well. 

Nori, say hi to Linda for me. My sister's son has a beach house in Bethany Beach.  Will give you guys a call next time I'm there.  Perhaps we can meet for drinks or dinner.  Will save the discussion about kids and grandkids until then.