The message forum is an ongoing dialogue between classmates. There are no items, topics, subtopics, etc.

Forums work when people participate - so don't be bashful! Click the "Post Message" button to add your entry to the forum.

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Jay, your granddaughter is very lovely. Thanks for sharing her picture. I know you are proud of her too. We have two grandchildren that are 5 and 9 and we are totally taken with them. 

Nori, I understand that you think the tariffs Trump has threatened are for a good motive but I don't think that To me it is so that there can be harsher treatments of immigrants than already exist..people who can legally apply for assylum will have a harder time and be rejected a lot more or people will have to wait in Mexico without assistance or be turned away altogether. The children in the camp like enclosures are supposed to lose the recreation time and other things which makes their lives even worse. I think Trump wants to please the base and I guess this type of thing pleases the base. This is not the America that I love. As Elijah Cummings said, we are better then this. As for Trump just being honest and not filtering, that is not a good thing when what he says disgraces the military and the fallen by smearing Mueller for example. You remember how he called every Republican a name...that was him not filtering his remarks but it showed a person of low characer in my opinion. Love, Joanie    

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Joanie, I am so sorry this is not the country you love. Perhaps that gets to the very core of our differences. You see, no matter what happens in political Washington or who happens to be elected POTUS, I am not only madly in love with this country but grateful every single day of my life that I am American, born & raised. 

Jack Mallory

Nora, to describe particular aspects of what the American government does, what American institutions do, as “not the America I love” is NOT a denial of love for the country. Abraham Lincoln did not love American slavery. American segregation was not the America Dr. King loved. I did not love the America that killed Vietnamese by the hundreds of thousands. To accuse those who find some of the things this country does unlovable as not loving our country goes right down the Trumpian path of labeling critics and honest reporters as “traitors” or “enemies of the state.” 

Did the era in which we grew up not teach us that it is possible, even desirable, to identify what we do not love about our cointry and work to change it?

The water calls. 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Nori, I am sorry you didn't understand what I meant by the country I love. I will always love America, a country of immigrants, based on ideals that we need to strive to keep, equal justice for all, etc. and this is the only country I want to live in for me.  I don't love what America has become under the Trump Presidency. That is what I meant. Glad to get a chance to clarify that. Love, Joanie 

Glen Hirose

Less than 7 days left before Father’s Day so have the guys been leaving hints around as to what type of feast we would like? This year I’ve opted-out of standing in front of a 500°F gas grill, and come up with this novel idea:

My favorite Cantonese restaurant and a glass of JW on-the-rocks…

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Oh. I never indicated that there was anything wrong in criticizing issues & historical mistakes made. I just assumed that we all realize there have been mistakes in America’s history. That it is not perfect. My point was that I am sorry Joanie feels such dread that she cannot love the country because of who holds the presidency for four years. Perhaps she was just emulating the drama of Cummings by saying “this isn’t the America I love”? Might she mean instead, “this isn’t the president I had in mind”? 

Glen Hirose

Come-on all you closet foodies I can’t be the only one in this forum that enjoys food…We haven’t turned into a Soylent Green Society yet.

Jack Mallory

Several of the reasons it's hard to to get me to spend time on YouTube.:

Jay Shackford

For those of you who might have missed it, here's excerpts from Dana Milbank's column on today's Op-Ed pages of the Washington Post." It's headlined, July 4, Trump Day.  (Since I don't have an electronic subscription and can't provide a link, I will type it.) That's the least I can do for my fellow BCC classmates -- known and unknown.  

By Dana Milbank

For President Trump, every day is Presidents' Day.

As Trump prepares to turn Independence Day into into a political rally, the question is not why he has decided to crash the nation's birthday party on the Mall, but why he didn't do it sooner.  

One by one, he has tried to remake our holidays to his benefit.

He issued a federal order declaring his Inauguration Day a "National Day of Patriotic Devotion." 

He claimed credit for saving Christmas, so that "everybody's very proud to be saying 'Merry Christmas' again."

On Thanksgiving, he proclaimed his gratitude for himself and "having made a tremendous difference."

He attempted a grand Veterans Day military military parade -- reviewed by him -- and when he failed to make that happen, he skipped the traditional visit to Arlington National Cemetery because he was "extremely busy .... doing other things."

On Memorial Day, he said "those who died for our great country would be very happy and proud" of his leadership.

And on the 75th anniversary of D-Day in Normandy this week, he used the white crosses of fallen Americans as his backdrop for an interview condemning "Nervous Nancy" Pelosi and the "fool" Robert Mueller.

And now: "HOLD THE DATE! We will be having one of the biggest gatherings in of Washington, D.C., on July 4th ...at the Lincoln Memorial.  Major fireworks display, entertainment and an address by your favorite President, me!"

Fireworks on the Fourth? It's a wonder nobody thought of it before. One can imagine how it will turn out ....

REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT

Lincoln Memorial/July4, 2019

My fellow Americans, welcome to the First Annual Trump International Independence Day and Casino on the Mall, brought to you by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and by the official hotel of Independence Day, the Trump International, preferred destination of discerning sheikhs. 

Today Americans celebrate what makes our country great, and that thing is your favorite President, me.  We come together as one nation, even the haters and losers, the fake news, Low IQ Joe, Nervous Nancy, Cryin' Chuck -- what a creep -- socialists, murderers, rapists and MS-13 animals.  This is the largest crowd ever. I have all the records.  I hold all the cards.

Martin Luther King Jr. spoke from this very spot, but I am hearing my speech is already better than his -- mabe the greatest ever. Abe Lincoln is also honored by my presence here.  Abe was a good President, but he was never as popular as me.  Ninety four percent approval rating in the Republican Party! All-time record.  Love records.  Also, the White House physician says I am now 6-foot-five, which makes me taller than Abe and means my BMI is not in the obese category.  

Thank you to those seated up front who contributed to my campaign at the Emolument Level. Before me tonight, I see the beautiful melting pot of America: people from Sweden, Norway and Denmark.  It is almost as great as seeing my royal family on the balcony of Buckingham Palace. 

The negative people in the District of Columbia objected to me taking over Independece Day, so I have declared July 4 a National Emergency, which allows me to pay for this party with money from the Pentagon.  Instead of traditional fireworks, tonight we will be using tactical nuclear weapons.  Why have them if you don't use them. 

Getting tired of typing, so you can read the final paragraphs online. Bests everyone, and yes, I still love my country even though I might leave at some point in the future by death or flight from the law.  

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Nori, you still don't understand my feelings. I love America. I didn't stop loving America. I meant that when I think of what America is all about, equality for all, a country of immigrants, respect for the rule of law, I want that America back. I guess you think I should love the way things are now when I feel like they don't represent what America is about. Allies are running away from us, people seeking refuge here the way our ancestors did have no place to come now. Children have been held in cages and there has been no plan to identify separated children from their parents and, so many are lost and traumatized forever.. That is a crime against humanity. So I want a more humane America back. ..I know we are not a perfect country, just like we are all not perfect people but this is way off the charts of common decency. The rule of law is defied. Trump is thumbing his nose at the Congress who has oversight into the executive branch. The environment is under seige. I want an America that strives to have clean air for our children, and cares about climate change. I want a less violent America where there is gun protection laws...You are obviously fairly happy with the way things are....that is your perogative but I am hearbroken over how things are. .Love, Joanie

Jack Mallory

Nora assumes that because Joanie doesn’t love America's actions, as represented by our Head of State, she therefore doesn't love our country. “Joanie, I am so sorry this is not the country you love.“

Maybe the point Joanie is trying to make is that we can be opposed to the US's actions and still love our country, just as we can see our children do things that are very wrong and still love them. In both cases, we do everything we can to change the behavior while making our love apparent. Perhaps many of those who love our country most work hardest to change its values and actions.

Jack Mallory

”Contemporary philosophers rank different types of evidence according to their reliability: How much confidence, they ask, can we reasonably have in a belief when it is supported by such-and-such information?”

Why it's important, and will become increasingly more important, that on-line claims include evidence and sourcing of evidence before we believe it. An apolitical look at why we can’t assume that anything we see or read on-line is true or accurate. No evidence, no way to track evidence back and check on it, no credence. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/10/opinion/deepfake-pelosi-video.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Ok. How bout this? I’m sorry you are broken hearted, Joanie. I’m also sorry that our biased media has continued the narrative that our president is not worthy of being president. On what grounds? Narcissism? Good thing LBJ didn’t have a hostile press. Good thing they covered up what was going on in the WH under Kennedy & Lincoln. (Read Doris Kearns Goodwin’s books sometime.) Can you imagine if the bias press had turned on Obama when racist Louis Farrakhan visited? Or unrelentingly battered with hit stories about Al Sharpton’s misadventures? Conyers?  Made up stories daily about Michelle & Barack? Battered Clinton & Biden (both draft dodgers) with ugly nicknames every time they gave a speech. I’m not saying we can’t be ‘heartbroken’ about Trump, but, fergodsake, be heartbroken with our media who is filling us with truths, half truths & total lies to the point where we can’t decipher what is what, also. Be heartbroken about our Congress who is responsible for a border system that was never designed or funded for an influx of children like today’s & worse, won’t do a frickin’ thing about it. Express your heartbreak. Demonstrate. Call your reps. Vote accordingly. But don’t say it’s not the America you love. Afterall Jack, would you tell your child ‘you’re not the child that I love’? 

Jay Shackford

Come on Nori – you are starting to sound like Spiro Agnew and his rants about “love America or leave it” back in the late 1960s during the height of the anti-Vietnam war protests. Like many of us who have taken the time to evaluate the situation honestly (start by reading the Mueller Report and turning off Trump TV), Joanie is upset with “high crimes Trump” who has hijacked the American dream and is turning it into a living nightmare.  The New Yorker has a good piece this week on the border crisis, noting that Trump’s insane border policies have played right into the hands of smugglers who are telling desperate Central American families that this might be their last chance to move to the USA because little boy Trump (like his good buddy in North Korea) is getting bat-shit crazier with each passing day.  Joanie – keep up the good fight.  You are a true patriot.  

Robert Hall

Hang in there Joanie.  Reading Nori's posts confirms that she feels exactly the same way--that our country isn't perfect, but that, just like you, she loves it anyway.  But it is harder to make our country better when one ignores reality.  When Nori gets going on her rants she always ends up tangled up in her thoughts because of her anger that our country is much more diverse and complicated than she wants it to be.

This past week marked the hundredth anniversary of Congress passing the women's suffrage amendment to the Constitution (ratified by enough states in 1920).  I wonder where our country would be today had women's suffrage been law TWO hundred years ago ......

Last time I checked FOX News does still have the highest ratings compared to other individual broadcast companies, but compared to the wide selection of reputable news organizations--CBS, NBC, ABC, NPR, PBS, BBC etc. at our disposal--FOX is small potatoes and it isn't that hard, with just a little effort, to get a broader, fact based perspective on what is happening in today's world.  (And no, I don't include C-SPAN in that group because it isn't a news organization.  I listen to specific hearings on specific bills, but otherwise it is just politicians pontificating to their voters back home in a mostly empty room).  And FOX's older, less well educated, viewership is declining.  It is interesting that Murdoch's son is trying to gain a smidgeon of credibility with discussions featuring Democratic Candidates--and that the candidates are getting applause for their policy statements from the FOX audience.  Democrats and Responsible Republicans--don't write off the heartland--98% are able to make the distinction between competence and flagrant incompetence.

Want to compare Obama's deficits during the Great Recession to Trump's deficits today Nori?

Here is something I found recently that I thought was worth passing on:

"I believe that the voices of fear, both from without and within, can only be dispelled by trusting the voice that comes from the heart.  Be still and listen to it.  If it speaks of love and compassion for others, for the world itself, it just might be the voice of God--or a reasonable facsimile.  If, however, it snarls with fear of the unknown, fear of losing what you have or of not getting what you want, then it might be the voice of Rupert Murdoch--or a reasonable facsimile."  This from one of the producers of the TV show that made millions of average Americans aware of the Shroedinger's Cat thought experiment...........

....and if you want to know how I REALLY FEEL about climate change and the foot dragging by deniers search YouTube for Bill Nye and John Oliver and watch the Last Week Tonight selection.

Did anyone else see Angela Merkel's Harvard commencement speech?  

Robert Hall

And thanks for sharing your family photo of your granddaughter Jay.  Ditto your photos Jack and Glen.

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Thanks to Jack and Jay and Robert for understanding that you can love your country but be upset about the direction it is going. I appreciate what all of you have said about this issue. Love to all...Joanie

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Haha! I think when i am being compared to Spiro T., it's time to switch gears!  Enjoy your broken hearts, wallow in misery and hyperbolic high drama or choose to absorb some other viewpoints that may just give you some hope that our country is certainly worth loving all the time. Or, perhaps you could actually say you are unhappy about the direction the country is going and not even use the love word. To quote an old Tina Turner song,  'what's love got to do with it?" Should half the country have felt loved when HRC called it full of "deplorables"? Hmm...

Glen, I wish i could talk about food with you, I really do.  But every time I do, I go to my kitchen and PRESTO! my thighs seem to enlarge right before my very eyes! Am trying hard to keep my swimsuit days under control, so I have to quickly skim over your delectable photos.  Speaking of photos, what a beautiful Iris (my fave) and got a hoot out of the New Yorker cartoon. SOO true.  I'll never get to the Mueller report with all I have to read.  But, hey, why should I? I have the ever adorable John Dean to give me the lowdown this week.  Thank gawd I don't define my country by its politics.  I could find myself getting brokenhearted daily.

On a lighter note (and so we can balance some of the political intercourse), here is a cute email from one of my kids. Luckily, he knows I have a sense of humor and, if you choose to read it, you may want to keep yours, too:

ARE YOU REALLY READY TO RETIRE?

You can retire to Phoenix, Arizona where...

1. You are willing to park three blocks away from your house because you found shade. 2. You experienced condensation on your rear-end from the hot water in the toilet bowl. 3. You can drive for four hours in one direction and never leave town. 4. You have over 100 recipes for Mexican food. 5. You know that "dry heat" is comparable to what hits you in the face when you open your oven door at 500 degrees. 6. The four seasons are: tolerable, hot,  really hot and ARE YOU KIDDING ME??

OR....you can retire to California where...

1. You make over $450,000 and you still can't afford to buy a house. 2. The fastest part of your commute is going down your driveway. 3. You know how to eat an artichoke. 4. When someone asks how far something is, you tell them how long it will take to get there rather than how many miles it is.  5. The four seasons are: Fire, Flood, Mud and Drought.

OR...you can retire to New York City where...

1.  You say "the city" and expect everyone to know you mean Manhattan.  2. You can get into a four-hour argument about how to get from Columbus Circle to Battery Park, but can't find Wisconsin on a map.  3. You think Central Park is "nature."  4.You believe that being able to swear at people in their own language makes you multilingual.  5. You've worn out a car horn.  (IF you have a car.)  6. You think eye contact is an act of aggression.

OR...you can retire to Minnesota where...

1.  You only have three spices: salt, pepper and ketchup.  2. Halloween costumes have to fit over parkas.  3. You have seventeen recipes for casserole.  4.  Sexy lingerie is anything flannel with less than eight buttons. 5.  The four seasons are: almost winter, winter, still winter and road repair. 6.  The highest level of criticism is "he is different", "she is different", or "it was different!"

OR...you can retire to The Deep South where....

1. You can rent a movie and buy bait in the same store.  2, "Y'all is singular and "all y'all" is plural. 3.  "He needed killin" is a valid defense.  4. Everyone has two first names: Billy Bob, Jimmy Bob, Joe Bob, Eddie Guy, Mary Beth, etc. 5.  Everything is either: "in yonder," "over yonder" or "out yonder".  6. You can say anything about anyone, as long as you say "bless his heart" at the end.

OR...you can move to Colorado where...

1.  You carry your $3,000 mountain bike atop your $500 car.  2.  You tell your husband to pick up Granola on his way home, so he stops at the day care center. 3.  A pass does not involve a football or dating.  4.  The top of your head is bald, but you still have a pony tail.

OR...you can retire to Nebraska or Kansas where...

1.  You've never met any celebrities, but the mayor knows y our name.  2.  Your idea of a traffic jam is three cars waiting to pass a tractor.  3.  You have had to switch from "heat" to "A/C" on the same day.  4.  You end sentences with a preposition:  "where's my coat at?"

OR...finally, you can retire to Florida where...

1.  You eat dinner at 3:15 in the afternoon.  2. All purchases include a coupon of some kind - even houses and cars.  3. Everyone can recommend an excellent cardiologist, dermatologist, proctologist, podiatrist or orthopedist.  4.  Road construction never ends anywhere in the state.  5. Cars in front of you often appear to be driven by headless people.

(Forum elitists  (you know who you are) should love that one).

Jack Mallory

No, Nora, I would not say that to my child. There are big differences in the kind of love I feel for my country, the love I feel for my children, and the language I use in expressing those different kinds of love. I suspect this is true for many of us. No need to give up the use of the word just because its meaning changes when applied in different situations, just allow a little nuance in your thinking  

Thanks, Jay and Robert, for taking the time to say all of the things I would have said. Been out shooting eaglets. 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

I just heard about how Chairman Nadler is trying very hard to get the information to the American public about the Mueller Report...most people like Nori haven't read it and are basing their conclusions of exonerating Trump on not having read it. I heard Joyce Vance, a very well respected Prosecutor say that based on the Mueller Report she feels certain that she could indict Trump and get a conviction and get one on appeal too and she would go forward with the case. Love, Joanie

Jerry Morgan

Just curious if Nora considers CSpan as fake news and whether she would ever believe what she sees and hears on it.  Is it possible that the CSpan broadcasts would be fake news.  I refer to the CSpan broadcast of the House Judicial Committee hearings of today.  Just a rhetorical question no answer necessary.

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Joanie, I believe that was the Dem strategy all along: not necessarily to impeach but to share the less-than-flattering details of the report for all to absorb, with the hope that 2020 falls to the Dems. Attacking Trump & making him look so bad that people either don’t vote or vote Democratic. John Dean yesterday spent time trying to tie Nixon’s foibles to Trump’s.  Twixt these driven pressures to keep the M Report front & center & constant bashing from a biased MSM, makes for good politics, I guess. That is, if people are not into making good policy instead. 

Jerry, C-span is no news. No opinion. No pundits. No commercials. Try watching sometime. Unless, of course, you don’t like making decisions on your own. 

No, alas, I missed Merkel’s commencement speech but what did you think of Trump’s DDay speech? Mexico’s response to Trump’s tariff threats? Would seem pretty significant that Mexico agreed to 6000 troops on their southern border rather than a measly 1000. Who knew that hitting them in the pocketbook might move the needle? Oh, that’s right - Trump did. 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

You are making the false assumption Nori that the Democrats are presenting this info just to make Trump look bad....no they are presenting this info so that the public who are not yet informed through the Mueller report, will learn that our elections were attacked by Russia (something Trump has never acknowledged nor done anything about...remember a President is supposed to protect our country against enemies.) Then they are presenting this to show that there were 10 obstruction of justice situations regarding Trump of which Nori, over 1,000 Federal prosecutors have said reach the level of criminal offenses...of felonies. I am sorry that you just see everything in terms of trying to hurt poor Trump. No, its to let the public know that our President has in the opinion of these 1,000 prosecutors, committed serious crimes.  Perhaps there will be some who find out the truth who might be alarmed and want to go in a different direction .Love, Joanie

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Trump's D Day speech was fine. What did you think Nori of Trumps bashing Mueller, calling him a fool with the backdrop of the soldiers who died defending us. Mueller was a marine who fought valiently for our country. McCain was a brave soldier too who Trump's comment was "I don't like people who are captured." love, Joanie  Thoughts on that?

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Jeez. I thought I made it clear that I'm not crazy about anybody bashing anybody, Joanie. It seems to me that we knew going into 2016 that Trump punches back big when attacked. That's his style. What he meant about not liking people who are captured? I have never heard his explanation of that, so I can't say.  But, isn't it pretty much a given at this point that we all wish he wouldn't make some of the comments he makes? Ruminating over them time and time again is exhausting most of the country, including me. As for a thousand attorneys saying that Trump has committed crimes? Out of curiosity, is there any number given to those who do NOT feel he has committed a crime? For the record, there is no doubt in my mind that there are a myriad of unsavory actions & words that swirl in, around and through Mueller's report. Let it all out. I don't care at all.  Really.  It gives Nadler and company something to do while they do nothing until the election.  I can tell you this though, if, in the report, there's something to nail Trump that warrants prison time, it will not materialize into action after he is out of office. Because then it won't matter an ounce to the Dems or anybody else, (except maybe to those who won't sleep til he's behind bars and they won't number enough to make it happen.) Case in point: remember all the threats from the Dems that Kavanaugh was going to be impeached? Never happened. Never even really TRIED to make it happen.  Why? Because it wasn't useful politically to them or anybody. Funny you would say that a president is supposed to protect us from our enemies.  That's the same argument that the Republicans use for Trumps border crisis stance! Recognizing when it's politics and when it isn't, isn't an easy task because it all takes our WANTING to believe we are being protected. ARE we ever really protected by anyone? Nobody wants to answer that one. That said, pass the popcorn, one never knows which ruse will win over the country's fancy.

Ok, ok Glen.  Down boy.  Here's a little goodie you might like on Father's Day, as well:

My moist, easy and scrumptious Rum Cake recipe:

4 eggs

1pkg. vanilla pudding mix (3.4oz)

1 c chopped walnuts

1/2 c water

1/2 c vegetable oil

1/2 c dark rum (I use Myers)

1 box Duncan Hines yellow cake mix

Glaze: 1/2 c butter; 1/4 c water, 1 c white sugar; 1/2 c dark rum (i use coconut rum)

Preheat to 325.  Grease/flour 10" bundt pan.  Sprinkle chopped nuts evenly over bottom of pan. In large bowl, combine cake mix and pudding mix.  Mix in eggs, water, oil & 1/2 c rum.  Blend well. Bake 60 min (til toothpick test shows clean). Let sit 10 minutes in pan then turn out into serving plate. Brush glaze over top and sides.  Pour glaze into bundt pan and put cake back in to soak it all up.  Punch holes.  Use all glaze.  (To make glaze: in saucepan, combine butter, water, sugar.  Bring to boil for 5 minutes, stirring.  Remove from heat and add the rum.) 

See? After typing this out, I now have to go and make the damned cake in order for my salivary glands to relax again.  I blame you, kiddo.