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Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Jack Mallory

Who is Alyssa Ahlgren and what does she have to offer in terms of education, work, other experiences that might inform her opinions? People espousing opinions can be found everywhere: coffee shops, bars, street corners, social media. What does Alyssa bring to the market place of ideas that might give her's more value than mine, or Joanie's, or Nora's? She doesn't bother to reinforce her beliefs with facts, with evidence, to back them up.

I will admit that she sounds qualified to assess entitlement, as she sits around the coffee shop scrolling through social media on her smart phone trying to think of what to write about. No troublesome thoughts about finding a job, paying the rent, or whether four bucks is a lot to pay for a latte. 

For some people, privilege is the expectation of having their opinions believed without evidence. 

Helen Lambie (Goldstein)

Jack, some background info on Alyssa Ahlgren from the website where this article appeared: https://fee.org/articles/college-student-my-generation-is-blind-to-the-prosperity-around-us/  (“FEE's mission is to inspire, educate, and connect future leaders with the economic, ethical, and legal principles of a free society. These principles include: individual liberty, free-market economics, entrepreneurship, private property, high moral character, and limited government.”)

Alyssa has her Bachelor’s in Business Administration and currently works as an Analyst in corporate finance. She is also pursuing her MBA through the University of Wisconsin – Eau Claire and is a former collegiate hockey player for the school. Alyssa spent most of her undergrad as a Pre-Law student with a major in Economics and minor in Political Science. However, she decided to pursue her passion for current events and politics outside of a career in law through writing and being an advocate for the conservative movement.

Jack Mallory

Thanks, Helen. I would have thought that someone with such an extensive background in econ, law, and business would have incorporated some evidence into her analysis. 

My kids are from the same generation as Alyssa, but seem to have learned a lesson she missed:

They knew they could espouse any opinions they wanted, but they would be asked for evidence. So one ended up a mathematician (kŒx; y􏰈=I ! kŒx; y􏰈=.x; y/2I--whatever the Hell THAT proves!) and the other's a forensic investigator who makes a living collecting evidence!(Dk,∑αiDconsisting of a determinantal variety (of square matrices) and an ℝlinear sum of determinantal subvarieties.

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Trump is so awful. He said in March that this virus kills the young too and just recently at a rally he said its the elderly and everyone else does fine as they have the good immune systems...tell that to the parents who lost children or the nurses who died trying to save people, etc. Then he is hollaring at rallies that the fake votes will come in and if you see that scream out....oh my goodness, too bad the Trumpees just are willing to swallow the assault on democracy for the Supreme Court or whatever else they want. Trump is a clear and present danger to our health and to our democracy. Love, Joanie

Robert Hall

Jack Mallory

Is that The Choice: 2020, Robert? It's available to stream at the Frontline web site. I'll check it out when I get a couple of hours. But kayaking today! Heading north in search of color.

*******

I’m a history geek, admittedly. But this looks like a good way to both get away from today's media assault on our senses and also to put it in historical perspective. Not political in the immediately pre-election madness of the moment, but a look at the politics and media of our growing up years. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/23/opinion/trump-media.html?referringSource=articleShare

"Broadcast news, which the TV networks offered as public service, also had little room for cheap punditry and outrage in search of profits. As a result, the coverage was more serious than anything on the dial today — no shouting talking heads, no montages of precisely edited sound bites, nothing engineered to drive you to share with your million friends. But because broadcast news was the only game in town, it was also more trustworthy, and more influential — perhaps explaining why both Johnson’s and Nixon’s presidencies ultimately collapsed under the weight of their own distortions.

"In the fishbowl of 2020, where the news is fragmented and none of us can remember yesterday, we are not at all so lucky."

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Trump celebrates and cheers to the crowd that a reporter got hurt in a protest march. He was injured in the knees and fell to the ground. Trump was happy...

I know we will hear nothing on this forum from the Trump supporters about this but many of us are horrified. Love, Joanie

https://newserworld.com/a/24749050

Glen Hirose

Nora Skinker (Morton)

     Well, I suppose Algren's piece has importance because she is young but already realizes that her peers are being told they have never known prosperity, when, in fact, it surrounds them. All I had to do was travel the world a bit to realize the prosperity of America - prosperity we take for granted. 
If we believe the anonymous words, "contentment is not the fulfillment of what you want but the realization of how much you already have" or even the contemporary Oprah Winfrey's words, " be thankful for what you have; you'll end up having more. If you concentrate on what you don't have, you will never, ever have enough", then America has fulfilled its promise of opportunity to those who work & contribute. The evidence lies in how prosperous we are compared to other nations. In comparison, AOC's words pitting haves against have-nots, seem woefully void of hope &, feeding upon ignorance, pityingly victimizing. 
    Now for some smiles: 

Jack Mallory

If Alghren's peers are all young, White, middle class graduate students there might be some truth that they are surrounded by prosperity. Not all Americans are, and to presume so is the height of ignorance, privilege, and entitlement.

********

​No need for the trolls, Russian or domestic, to spread doctored photos and invent lies. Trump's doing their work for them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/us/politics/russia-disinformation-election-trump.html?referringSource=articleShare

*******

Only slightly doctored (by me, not Ivan) photos: color starting to change, loons still with us. And I picked up a friend!

Nora Skinker (Morton)

I guess that depends on your definition of prosperity, Jack. 
Here's something (from that less-than-worthwhile FB) for everybody: 

Enjoy! 

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Here are some quotes that strike me as applicable still in this day & age! 

Helen Lambie (Goldstein)

Here we go again. Nori why do you never think to check out the sources of things you post? As many of us have told you over and over again, not everything you read on the internet is the truth. And some of us care deeply about the truth. Re your Churchill quotes, I have neither the time nor inclination to checkout each one, but can rely on this from Richard M Langworth, senior fellow Hillsdale College Churchill Project (https://richardlangworth.com/az-quotes-mangles-churchills-words)

"Dozens of readers have sent email attachments from a website called AZ Quotes. They ask: “Are these accurate?” The answer: Not a lot. AZ Quotes is a serious purveyor of “Churchillian Drift.” I don’t think there is a larger batch of fake Churchillisms anywhere. This is no modest collection. To paraphrase Churchill, it has much to be modest about."

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Okay, Helen. There are several sites attributing quotes to Churchill & Amazon carries a number of books loaded with his supposed quotes. Some I have read long ago which were & continue to be attributed to him. Where, in your studies, you discover that a quote is incorrect, just replace it with "anonymous". And I will continue to post good quotes but only when they are good & will not attribute them to anybody. Like you, I haven't the time or want to check out each & every good quote. If you do, feel free to do so & make sure you call me out on it. I wouldn't have it any other way! 
   On another note, this might be good to bolster your endorphin levels ..... and you'll be happy to know it's anonymous: 

Jack Mallory

And it's not just a matter of truth/accuracy, Helen, which aren't important to some folks, but also an issue of respect for those who have made a difference in the world. To make up or pass on mindless babble and attribute it to those who have had critically important, impassioned things to say does them and history a disservice. Anyone who has read or heard the words Churchill used to rally the British people during WWII understands what true leadership in a time of threat is. 

If a multiplicity of mindless memes is worth posting, so is some of Churchill's real oratory.

On taking over from the feckless Chamberlain early on WWII:

“I would say to the House, as I said to those who have joined this Government: I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I can say: It is to wage war, by sea, land and air, with all our might and with all the strength  that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. This is our policy. You ask, what is our aim?

"I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory, there is no survival.”

Three weeks later, after the evacuation of British troops from Dunkirk:

“Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous states have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.”

Two weeks later, facing the possibility of a Nazi invasion:

“The battle of France is over. I expect that the Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilisation. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned upon us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war.

"If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, ‘This was their finest hour.’”

Why put drivel into the mouth of a man who could speak and lead like this?

Jack Mallory

Let's not play word games, Nora. Again, to presume that all Americans are surrounded by prosperity is the height of ignorance, privilege, and entitlement. These are not scenes of American prosperity, no matter how you or Ms. Alghren might define it. 

https://twitter.com/nypdnews/status/1306202318640214017?ref_url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitter.com%2f

https://www.undispatch.com/un-human-rights-official-examined-poverty-united-states-findings-hit-hard/

https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/can-fighting-blight-prevent-gun-violence

https://www.capjournal.com/news/pine-ridge-sioux-seeking-new-federal-housing-funds/article_f5a43f1a-a75a-11e5-a9ad-338987908e5b.html

https://centralscene.org/2673/news/poverty-found-where-we-least-expect-it/

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

I agree Jack, that the person discussing all the things people get re: prosperity and such isn't seeing what so many are seeing who don't have that kind of life.

Also, though I too love the friendship of Ruth Bader Ginsberg with Antony Scalia as its a dear friendship where they went to the opera together and had such laughs together, it is so opposite Donald Trump who just blasts everyone who he feels isn't a big Trump supporter. To think just recently he was happy that a reporter got injured in the knees and fell to the ground....Love, Joanie

Nora Skinker (Morton)

    We certainly differ in our definitions of 'mindless babble', kind sir. You call thought-provoking quotes,  even misattributed, mindless babble & I call AOC's statement "an entire generation, which is now becoming one of the largest electorates in America, came of age & never saw American prosperity" a large, steaming pile of mindless babble. Did I actually say somewhere that ALL Americans are prosperous? Of course not. The piece in question indicates that "our poverty level begins 31 times above the global average. Thirty one times!" If that is true, I suspect the American generation of which she speaks has known plenty of prosperity, regardless of the writer's personal lot in life. 

Helen Lambie (Goldstein)

I agree with you, Bob—it is a great program. I just finished watching Frontline’s comparison of Trump and Biden. Neither man is perfect. One realizes this, one does not. I would by far prefer a man who makes mistakes, apologizes for them and then goes on to make himself a better man—learning from these mistakes, than a man who thinks he can do no wrong, thinks he has never made a mistake, has no empathy, sympathy or understanding for anyone except himself. I don’t care that he felt unloved, that he didn’t have a great relationship with his parents—I know plenty of people who have had much worse childhoods yet moved on to adulthood as fine human beings. Trump is not one of those people. The sooner we, as a nation, are rid of him, the better. Then we can all move on to becoming better people, both individually and as a country.

Joan Ruggles (Young)

Nori, your little Facebook friend has been told that she and her peers have never know prosperity. Who’s telling her friends this? I guess her friend’s parents weren’t doing their jobs. I drilled that concept into my kids daily. That’s why they have empathy for those who have less. That’s NOT “pitting haves against have nots.” That’s realizing you can help make a difference for the have nots. Maybe you’d just rather sit on the beach and congratulate yourself for being a lucky, comfortable white person who lacks for nothing? Nori, you’re just never going to get it.

If you concentrate on what you don't have, you will never, ever have enough"

Correct. That’s why Mary Trump’s book is called “Too much and Never Enough” Maybe you should be sending your little advice to DT.

“I don’t have time to check out each & every quote” That’s fine, then I don’t have time to read them. Actually I have all the time in the world. I’m retired. I just would rather go for a hike in the countryside or swim a few laps than read quotes pulled out of your……..thin air.

The fact that you have all the time in the world to dig up incorrectly attributed quotes but no time to find out if they are true or not is, as always, showing the usual disrespect for us. I will further disrespect you by not giving them the time of day.

Thanks as always Helen!

Jack Mallory

"our poverty level begins 31 times above the global average. Thirty one times!"

Senior moment on my part, I guess. What does this mean? Global average of what? What is it that begins 31 times above the global average? What is the number that is 31 times what number? After it begins, where does it go? What do these numbers represent? You repeat this as if you understand it, Nora, so help me out. Put it in words an old fart can understand. Not kidding, I really need help understanding this. 

*********

"Islam is more dangerous in a man than rabies in a dog." Bigoted babble. Dangerous drivel. Ascribe it to a man respected as an historic figure and you support it as truth. Do you, Nora? If not, why spread it? I won't bother with the other phony Churchill quotes.

Thomas Jefferson quotes on religion, especially Christianity:

"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"

"The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."

"Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses."

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."

"To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. to say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, & Stewart."

"All thinking men are atheists."

"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration--courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth."

"England has forty-two religions and only two sauces."

"Without religion, we'd have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

"Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd and bloody religion that has ever infected the world."

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"

"In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point." 

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people"

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

"If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?"  https://www.rationalresponders.com/atheist_anti_religious_quotes

Thomas Jefferson, perhaps the wisest, certainly the most prescient, of all the Founders.

Jack Mallory

Helen, anybody? Still trying to figure out what the average global poverty level means, how ours is 31 times whatever it is. I started trying to figure it out when Nora posted the Alghren piece, now she repeats it as if she knows what it means but I still don't understand. 

Nora, really, I need help understanding this. 

*******

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/09/23/trump-wont-commit-to-peaceful-power-transfer-says-get-rid-of-the-ballots-for-continuation-of-his-presidency/

I think Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski understand this photo, as does Cindy McCain. 

Joan Ruggles (Young)

GET RID OF THE BALLOTS!

Explain to us Nori and your secret friends why this is American, legal, Democatic, moral? We await your analysis.

Jack Mallory

Ballots, Joan? Trump don' need no steenkin' ballots! But nearly 500 national security experts think we do.

NATIONAL SECURITY LEADERS FOR BIDEN

We are 489 retired Generals, Admirals, Senior Noncommissioned Officers, Ambassadors and Senior Civilian National Security Officials supporting Joe Biden for President. (My emphasis.)

AN OPEN LETTER TO AMERICA

September 24, 2020

To Our Fellow Citizens:

We are former public servants who have devoted our careers, and in many cases risked our lives, for the United States. We are generals, admirals, senior noncommissioned officers, ambassadors, and senior civilian national security leaders. We are Republicans, Democrats, and Independents. We love our country. Unfortunately, we also fear for it. The COVID-19 pandemic has proven America needs principled, wise, and responsible leadership. America needs a President who understands, as President Harry S. Truman said, that “the buck stops here.”

We the undersigned endorse Joe Biden to be the next President of the United States. He is the leader our nation needs.

We believe that Joe Biden is, above all, a good man with a strong sense of right and wrong. He is guided by the principles that have long made America great: democracy is a hard-won right we must defend and support at home and abroad; America’s power and influence stem as much from her moral authority as it does from her economic and military power; America’s free press is invaluable, not an enemy of the people; those who sacrifice or give their lives in service of our nation deserve our respect and eternal gratitude; and America’s citizens benefit most when the United States engages with the world. Joe Biden will always put the nation’s needs before his own. 

Those who have served know empathy is a vital leadership quality – you cannot do what is best for those you lead if you do not know their challenges. Joe Biden has empathy born of his humble roots, family tragedies and personal loss. When Americans are struggling, Joe Biden understands their pain and takes it upon himself to help. 

We believe America’s president must be honest, and we find Joe Biden’s honesty and integrity indisputable. He believes a nation’s word is her bond. He believes we must stand by the allies who have stood by us. He remembers how America’s NATO allies rushed to her side after 9/11; how the Kurds fought by our side to defeat ISIS; and how Japan and South Korea have been steadfast partners in countering North Korean and Chinese provocations. Joe Biden would never sell out our allies to placate despots or because he dislikes an allied leader.

While some of us may have different opinions on particular policy matters, we trust Joe Biden’s positions are rooted in sound judgment, thorough understanding, and fundamental values.

We know Joe Biden has the experience and wisdom necessary to navigate America through a painful time. He has grappled with America’s most difficult foreign policy challenges for decades, learning what works – and what does not – in a dangerous world. He is knowledgeable, but he also knows that listening to diverse and dissenting views is essential, particularly when making tough decisions concerning our national security. Many of us have briefed Joe Biden on matters of national security, and we know he demands a thorough understanding of any issue before making a decision – as any American president should.

Finally, Joe Biden believes in personal responsibility. Over his long career, he has learned hard lessons and grown as a leader who can take positive action to unite and heal our country. It is unthinkable that he would ever utter the phrase “I don’t take responsibility at all.”

The next president will inherit a nation – and a world – in turmoil. The current President has demonstrated he is not equal to the enormous responsibilities of his office; he cannot rise to meet challenges large or small. Thanks to his disdainful attitude and his failures, our allies no longer trust or respect us, and our enemies no longer fear us. Climate change continues unabated, as does North Korea’s nuclear program. The president has ceded influence to a Russian adversary who puts bounties on the heads of American military personnel, and his trade war against China has only harmed America’s farmers and manufacturers. The next president will have to address those challenges while struggling with an economy in a deep recession and a pandemic that has already claimed more than 200,000 of our fellow citizens. America, with 4% of the world’s population suffers with 25% of the world’s COVID-19 cases. Only FDR and Abraham Lincoln came into office facing more monumental crises than the next president.

Joe Biden has the character, principles, wisdom, and leadership necessary to address a world on fire. That is why Joe Biden must be the next President of the United States; why we vigorously support his election; and why we urge our fellow citizens to do the same.

Sincerely,

The signature block would have taken 14 screen shots to reproduce! But it's available here: https://www.nationalsecurityleaders4biden.com/

I'm sure Trump and his supporters would have us believe that these are un-American traitors, socialists, losers, terrorists, thugs, murderers, Mexicans, MS-13 gangsters trying to destroy our suburbs or whatever this week's threat labels may be. Looks to me like these 489 career public servants know who the threat really is.